Anti-war people irritate me. War is good.
I've been thinking about something lately.
There's all this anger coming from moonbats concerning the war in Iraq. It's the same old crap since late 2002(ish), and I had actually gotten a taste of it back in '90-'91, I was just too young to know it then. It seems to me that most Americans, while they may not be head-over-heels in love with the war in Iraq, agree that Saddam was evil, and that he probably would've hurt us really bad one day. Some of us (like yours truly) are ecstatic that that murderous tyrant is in a cell where he belongs, and millions of people who have known only despair are now free. But, of course, there's the moonbats. Moonbats that think we went in just to take their oil. Moonbats that think that OIF was completely meaningless because we didn't find a lot of WMDs.* Moonbats that think we're an "imperialist occupation force". I would venture to guess that these anti-war types are a very small percentage of the American people, and that the MSM just gives them a lot of attention because they screech the loudest.
But I'm curious. The two lengthiest conflicts America got involved in this century have gotten completely opposite reviews. World War II is remembered as being a glorious example of American greatness where all the valorous soldiers returned home as heroes. Vietnam, on the other hand, is remembered as being a dark example of American depravity where the soldiers were pot-smokers who returned home and got spit on.
History has judged these two wars very differently. They were obviously not the same war, but are the differences between the wars themselves what has caused the different perceptions? Some of the basic differences, off the top of my head:
World War II was a fight to the death against a heinous evil, that if left unchecked, could have one day conquered America itself.
Vietnam was a "police action" to contain world Communism.
But is it that simple? I consider myself a decent enough WWII buff, but my history about Vietnam is weak, at best. So here's my first need-feedback type question. What were the implications involved in Vietnam? I know we didn't want the South to fall to Communism, which was the biggest threat in the world at that time... possibly ever. But just how important was South Vietnam? Were we convinced that Communism would continue to spread, maybe to India or Japan or Australia next? Or were we just sticking our noses in where they don't belong, as some would have us believe?
World War II was very obviously a just war. We were fighting for survival. What about Vietnam? I know history portrays Vietnam as a colossal mistake, and that it's common to find that as a reason for the anti-war protests. However... having seen what I've seen on TV about Iraq the last two years, I am now inclined to question all that history. Now let me get to the point.
A supposition: World War II is remembered by historians as a good thing, and rightly so. Vietnam is remembered by historians as one big oopso from beginning to end. I'm starting to believe that what the historians say about Vietnam is not entirely accurate. Having seen today's moonbats shriek the most unbelievable things about a just war in Iraq, I wonder if historians are remembering only what is convenient about Vietnam. But... alas... I wasn't there.
So. I would like to know if any SITYSK™ readers who were actually there for these chunks of history saw that either:
a) during the '60s and '70s, most Americans really didn't mind Vietnam but were outscreamed by hippies, or
b) during the '40s, were there morons equivalent to today's moonbats who were still opposed to the war despite the truths about it that were right in front of their faces.
The reason for this is that it wouldn't surprise me, two or three decades from now, to have a whole crop of kids grow up thinking that at the turn of the millenium America had a bloodthirsty president who went around on a religious crusade invading Middle Eastern countries for oil. People today actually believe that, but they're idiots; I'm hoping time will silence them.
That next generation will need to know the truth- that we were in a fight for our lives against a particularly unscrupulous enemy. See, my theory is that not everybody, not even the majority, of Americans were so dead set against our troops being in Vietnam. But all I have to go on is history that's possibly tainted.
So. A call for help: if you were there, let me know what the mood in the country was really like. Especially if you were a veteran of those wars or times. Lord knows if some punk kid comes up to me when I'm seventy and starts talking about the warforoil and how he'd have spit on soldiers' uniforms or some nonsense, I'll smack him upside the head with my cane and force him to listen to every story about the sandbox that I can remember.
*- we didn't find a lot of WMDs. We did find some. A little bit. And just 'cuz we didn't find them all doesn't mean they weren't there. Wanted to clarify that.
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27 Comments:
I'm no Vietnam expert. However, there is a course being taught this coming Spring/Summer Semester at WSU on History of Vietnam. I was very tempted to take this class, because the professor, he served in Vietnam. I think getting his perspective would be awesome. Many of his students speak very highly of him.
Howdy, Queen! Welcome to th' blog!
Hey, if you get input on this subject months from now, that's all good, I'll still wanna hear it. I think I might call my dad about this one. He wasn't in the military, but he was at least there. Hmm.
If you don't know anything about Vietnam then you should hold your tongue when you say stupid stuff like war is good with no defense of your position.
p.s. maybe if you want to know something about just how f__ked up Vietnam was, you should visit these crazy hippie institutions called libraries.
If you don't know anything about Vietnam then you should hold your tongue when you say stupid stuff like war is good with no defense of your position.
Did you miss everything I said in the post concerning Vietnam? I said that it's remembered as a dark time in American history, and a colossal mistake. I wanted to know if there's anybody out there that was actually around then that can share with the class a first-hand experience, because I have reason to believe the history has been tainted by people with agendas.
As far as me saying "war is good," that's what we in the literate world call "satire". I wish wars were unnecessary and nonexistent. I say the same thing about crime, liberals, dictatorships, and evil in general. But since the human race will never (not before the Second Coming, anyway) be able to not have Bad Things™ in our world, real people with common sense will realize that evil is out there, and it must be destroyed. Hence war. But war sucks. I hate it for those Marines and soldiers in the sandbox right now putting their lives on the line because evil has reared its ugly head- but if war's the only way to kill the evil, and it frequently is, then I'm all for it.
p.s. maybe if you want to know something about just how f__ked up Vietnam was, you should visit these crazy hippie institutions called libraries.
Once again- you can't trust everything you read. Or see on TV. Or hear from first-hand accounts, for that matter- but that's what I'm asking for. I just wanna know if what is said about Vietnam today is the same stuff that normal Americans were saying in the '60s.
You know honestly I only stumbled on this blog because I'm writing a paper about Just War Theory and The Vietnam War, and wrote the previous two posts.
I started wrting a long rebutle about St. Augustine and Catholic social teaching, and then I realized it's not worth it. You are so far off the mark in your view that somehow the US is the all-righteous power which rids the world of evil. If you don't think there are political agendas in war then you are WAY off. And what is so sad is that people voted most on morals in this election, when something so immoral is going on. Tens of thousands of soldiers and civilians are dying.
And to top it off you say things like history is tainted, and somehow that makes going to a library and picking up a book completely worthless, because you'd rather have one persons first-hand account than read a book which has to undergo peer-review to be published. Granted history is colored by the victors, but you act as if that somehow absolves one from reading about something. And you talk about being literate, pick up a goddamn book.
Yeah liberals are evil. What is evil about wanting to help the working class, people in poverty? For what the war in Iraq costs we could be saving the millions of people dying in Africa. That would be a lot more moral (since you insist on talking about evil) of a thing to do.
But like I said you are so far off the mark and so ignorant that you're not worth my time anymore and I'll get back to reading what people who actually know what they're talking about have to say.
Like I said, pick up a book. If you want to know about Vietnam then try Where the Domino Fell by James Olson or if you want to know some real stuff about the war in Iraq then read Chain of Command by Seymour Hersh.
Before making statements like liberals are evil you should fucking inform yourself.
I must protest. It has not been necessary until now that I ask people to please refrain from cussing on this blog. I figure if Tao Libra can be civil here, anybody can. I was gonna add to my comment yesterday commending you on your self-censorship, but then I changed my mind. Guess I made a mistake.
Now that that's settled...
You know honestly I only stumbled on this blog because I'm writing a paper about Just War Theory and The Vietnam War, and wrote the previous two posts.
Thanks for stopping by. I like comments.
I started wrting a long rebutle about St. Augustine and Catholic social teaching, and then I realized it's not worth it.
Why not? Speak your mind.
You are so far off the mark in your view that somehow the US is the all-righteous power which rids the world of evil.
All-righteous? No. It's not so much that America is better than anybody else, it's that most everybody else is worse than us. And yes, I agree with America's policy of trying to square away the rest of the world. We worked long and hard to be the world's only superpower- if we let the rest of the world kill itself, that wouldn't be very nice of us, now would it?
If you don't think there are political agendas in war then you are WAY off.
Did I say that? Or insinuate it? If so, point it out and I'll explain or correct myself. "War is a continuation of political aims by other means." -Heinlein, Starship Troopers. Think I got the quote right- the gist anyway. I absolutely agree with that. Of course it's political.
And what is so sad is that people voted most on morals in this election, when something so immoral is going on. Tens of thousands of soldiers and civilians are dying.
It's not immoral. Not as a whole, anyway. You're talking about the war in Iraq, right? War is not of necessity immoral. And those stats are incorrect.
And to top it off you say things like history is tainted, and somehow that makes going to a library and picking up a book completely worthless, because you'd rather have one persons first-hand account than read a book which has to undergo peer-review to be published. Granted history is colored by the victors, but you act as if that somehow absolves one from reading about something. And you talk about being literate, pick up a goddamn book.
That's not what I meant. I'm a bookworm. I love to read. But the point of this whole post was that I don't know if I can believe what people today say about Vietnam. Of course I can go pick up any number of books. Some will tell me one thing, some the exact opposite. Same thing with documentaries. I didn't say that I'm positive that history is tainted, I said I wasn't sure that it isn't.
Look. What I was wondering here is, was there anybody around in the 60's that can tell me what they thought of Vietnam. Before the MSM labeled it as some evil undertaking, like they do today with Iraq. If John Q. Citizen read the newspaper in 1965 and said "Why in the world is Johnson sending American soldiers to Asia?!", then that's what I want to know.
Yeah liberals are evil. What is evil about wanting to help the working class, people in poverty? For what the war in Iraq costs we could be saving the millions of people dying in Africa. That would be a lot more moral (since you insist on talking about evil) of a thing to do.
To answer that: The working class and people in poverty won't be around to need help if we cave in to terrorists now. They'll end up dead.
As far as Africa goes- the first thing that starving people and/or AIDS victims on that continent can do to help themselves is get some decent governments. African leaders are among the most corrupt in the world- and they don't seem to like their subject populations too much. Poverty and famine and Africa tend to be caused by their own ruthless governments. Not Americans fighting in Iraq.
But like I said you are so far off the mark and so ignorant...
Well, that's not very nice.
...that you're not worth my time anymore and I'll get back to reading what people who actually know what they're talking about have to say.
Very well. But you're the one who has yet to make a point.
Like I said, pick up a book. If you want to know about Vietnam then try Where the Domino Fell by James Olson or if you want to know some real stuff about the war in Iraq then read Chain of Command by Seymour Hersh.
Judging by your tone and rhetoric, I can pretty much take it for granted that those books are the exact kind of "tainted history" I'm trying to avoid.
Before making statements like liberals are evil you should fucking inform yourself.
Be nice. And I have informed myself- pretty much everything that liberals stand for goes against God, the Consistution, and common sense. Does that make everything that conservatives do "right"? Of course not. But that's a different rant for a different day.
Uh...I think you pretty much handled him, but I'd just like to point out how hilarious it is that "anonymous" still lives in the fantasy world where liberals care about helping the disadvantaged.
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